Monday, January 08, 2007

Aftermath comments

The article "Mediations on aftermath" was a quick stream-of-consciousness article that I penned just before going to bed. I really didn't expect the widespread positive reaction that I got.

Interesting.

Let's try to hit some of the comments to that article:

mr fixit said...

Thanks for the advice. One question; Being a LEO, how do you act toward a citizen when you are called to the scene of a shooting and he/she doesn't want to talk to you? I don't mean you personally, what is the average LEO gonna think?

The reaction of your average not-me-LEO is going to be based on a large number of factors, not the least of which being the geographical area of the United States that you're in, the population density (Large city? Small town? Rural?), local attitudes towards self-defense and the experience of the officer in question -- among other things.

I can tell you how I respond, but there really isn't any way for me to predict the reactions of another officer.

Hammer said...

I've seen the yahoos on tx.guns TFL THR and the mighty chronicles of Ayoob pontificate about this subject. Your advice seems to be the most realistic and sensible I've read so far and thats no B.S.

Thank you.

Gay_Cynic said...

Thanks also...you know, now and again I wonder if you've learned to channel Cooper in your more serious moments.

I'll never be anywhere near the wordsmith or warrior that Colonel Jeff Cooper was, but thanks.

WR Olsen said...

Great advice. May I have your persission to send your words to some instructors I know?

You're welcome. As long as I am credited with my words, feel free to send them where you will.

It's when I catch folks cut-and-pasting my work and claiming it as their own that I start getting peevish.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Dog that was a masterpiece. I wonder if a jury knows or is ever told of the mind bending efects of adrinaline? Anyway what would be the "prefered" method of someone answering the door? I mean you are responding to a shots fired call so should someone leave the door open or what?

In my experience, juries are seldom -- if ever -- told about the psychological and physiological effects involved in high-stress situations. When it is brought up, it's usually by the defence attorney.

In this area -- again, I can't speak for others -- the best way to answer your door after thumping a critter off this mortal coil is to be on the phone with the dispatcher when the cops show up. When you see the red-and-blues, tell her that and she should confirm that her officers are on scene. As soon -- I say again my last -- As Soon as you get that confirmation, tell her that you're setting the phone down. Some folks will tell you to give her a description of yourself, and if you have the presence of mind to do that -- all well and good.

Set the phone (still connected) and your weapon down, take several steps away from the phone/weapons, and wait for the officers to enter. I suggest waiting in a lighted area in a non-threatening stance, but it probably won't be physically possible for you not to be bladed or on your toes. Please don't make any fast moves.

Calico Jack said...

If you'd like to go into a little detail about the things that are likely to happen to the law abiding home owner after a shoot, it would be appreciated. Specifically, what if my attorney isn't answering his phone at 3:00 AM? Am I going to spend the rest of the night in jail? If I am in jail, who should my family be talking to in order to find out where I am, especially if the police are trying to keep me hidden for a while.

I'm sorry to keep saying this, but there are really way too many variables for me to be guessing about the reactions of officers in other jurisdictions. I can tell you that the areas I've worked, unless there's something really hinky about the whole shoot, you're not going to be spending the night in jail. Again, do not take my rural point-of-view to be Gospel in, say, New York, Washington DC, Chicago or any other wretched hives of scum and villainy.

I can tell you that if you are arrested, you must be given the chance to make two completed phone calls within four hours of being booked. Always keep several phone numbers memorized. You would not believe how many folks get booked into my jail who get in front of the phone and realize that all their contact numbers are stored in their cell phone memory -- which is sealed inside of a property bag, which will not be opened until release.

Anonymous said... A piece of advice from my attorney: have a good friend and/or neighbor, one who is level-headed and patient, to manage you while the adrenaline rush dies down and he (the attorney) drives to your house.

A good idea, and I have, on an occasion or two, had a minister meet me at the house. A minister has testimonial exemptions and privileges that Average Joe does not.

Be aware, however, I have also arrived at incident locations and ordered anyone who wasn't a witness or a victim to unarse my crime scene and go home. Once the police show up, your friend or neighbor can be ordered away -- and probably will be.

the Northwestern Diamondback of THR said...

Officer 'Dawg, this is highly valuable advice. May we PDF it for release to the general self-defense community, or for coursework use?

Of course. As always, please credit me -- or this blog, if you do.

martywd said...

Hopefully, HB 284 will be passed this year in the TX Legislature?

Too right, there. I would ask that any of my Gentle Readers who live in Texas kindly contact your legis-critters and noodge them into sending this one to the Governor.

DW said...

By the BY might I link to your site at Dragon Watch?

I'd be honoured. It may be sometime before I get a reciprocal link posted, though. I've got to bribe someone to talk to the Magic Elves on this thing.

If you posted a comment, but I didn't answer it here, please don't take offence. I read and treasure every comment.

LawDog

8 comments:

Ross said...

As usual, Dawg, an excellent and informative post. I did NOT realize that simply having my attorney's phone number in my Palm Pilot was NOT going to be of use, for example.

Thank you, Sir.

Anonymous said...

I just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your interesting, insightful and well-written article.

I just added your blog to my RSS reader and I'm looking forward to reading more from you. Thanks again, Joe.

Blackwing1 said...

LawDog:

As Joel Rosenberg explains in his book on self-defense, here in Minneapolis, if there's a firearm involved, you WILL go to jail. Period, no exceptions. It's MPD policy to "arrest the gun". Knowing this, my wife and I have got a business-card-sized paper we carry next to our permits, which contains the following statements:

- "I was attacked."
- "I will sign a criminal complaint."
- "There's the evidence (and/or witnesses)."
- "I want to talk to my attorney, and I do NOT consent to a search."

It also has our lawyer's name and phone number on it.

It's important to remember that none of the above will make any difference, here in Minneapolis, you're still going to jail. But I think it may help to have it written out, in convenient form, so that you can remember to say it, and then (as our lawyer told me), shut the heck up.

Thanks again for the informative and entertaining blog.

GunnLaw said...

You skipped a little something in the physical stance to take with LEOs coming into the house.

Make sure your hands are visible and empty.

Almost all the advice goes for traffic stops as well. Turn on the interior lights if it's dark and make sure hands are visible and not moving around. It's perfectly all right to have your driver's license and insurance certificate ready in your hands, but open the driver's window and put your hands back on the steering wheel when you see the officer approaching.

It makes for a much friendlier contact when everyone feels reasonably safe.

The Freeholder said...

You mention THR--are you the same LD as the moderator there?

LawDog said...

You mention THR--are you the same LD as the moderator there?

Yes, I'm the LawDog who moderates at both The High Road and The Firing Line.

Kevin said...

I have noted in 3.5 years of blogging that the posts I work hardest on and expect the biggest reactions to generally just sit there. It's the ones I just crank off without thinking too much about that get linkage and commentary far beyond anything I'd ever expect.

And "Meditations on the Aftermath" was an excellent piece of advice.

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